Rules National Dex Forum Rules, Resources, and Announcements

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Welcome to the National Dex forum! This forum is used to discuss all things National Dex, an unofficial metagame based on the principle of everything from Generation 7 being allowed in Generation 8! This means all cut Pokemon, moves, and mechanics such as Mega Evolution are available. For a full guide on all the mechanics of National Dex, please check out this thread. This subforum of National Dex focuses on the National Dex metagame, which is a parallel of an OU metagame; however, it is not usage-based. For National Dex Anything Goes, check out this subforum.

National Dex Discord Link

Forum Rules:
  • In order to post a thread, you must have the approval of a moderator, so please PM one before posting your thread. The moderator team will delete threads that do not have approval or do not fit into the scope of this forum. Additionally, there should not be any duplicate threads, so please check to see if the thread you want to post already exists before requesting approval to post it.
  • This forum is not the place to ask for help with a team. This should be done in the Rate My Team forum Rate My Team forum. Please make sure to read the rules of the RMT forum before posting there if you choose to do so.
  • All discussion should be based on the actual metagame and information regarding it. This is not the place for speculation unless explicitly stated otherwise in the thread you are posting in.
  • Posts in this forum should not be about how National Dex is implemented and how you think it could be implemented better. There are no plans to change how National Dex functions as a metagame. However, any concerns or questions regarding this can be directed towards a moderator or member of the tiering council.
  • Do not create threads just to ask questions. Instead, make use of the simple questions thread.
- Don't double post. There's an edit button for a reason. If you need to delete one of your posts, the delete button is an option after selecting edit.

- Make the effort for your posts to be grammatically correct and coherent. We understand that not everyone speaks English as their first language, and we're willing to give some leeway here. However, if English is your first language, you really have no excuse to be making incoherent posts. Bad formatting not only makes your posts unpleasant to read, but they also lessen the positive impact of the points you're trying to make.

- Don't put your opinion in hide tags. This isn't really infraction-worthy, but if you're going to write a paragraph of your thoughts and opinions, make it visible. Hide tags have their place, but hiding your opinions in hide tags is apt to make people not read them at all. There is enough censorship on the internet already, don't censor yourself here.

- Avoid excessive quoting. It's obnoxious, especially when you quote three paragraphs to answer with a one-liner. Please don't do that.

- Don't reply to a quote by putting bold text inside the quote box. This is exceedingly difficult to properly respond to. If you feel the need to break up a quote, you can do so by editing the quote tags. For example:

[QUOTE=User's Name]
Paragraph 1

Paragraph 2
Would become:

[QUOTE=User's Name]
Paragraph 1


Paragraph 2
-Do not insult or flame other users. Correcting users when they say something that's clearly wrong is fine. Calling them a (BAN ME PLEASE) or saying they are stupid/retarded is an automatic 2-point infraction. No exceptions for anyone, badged users included.

Current National Dex Forum Moderators:
Solaros & Lunaris

National Dex is led by a Tier Leader and a council of experienced players. The current council consists of:
Kaede (Tier Leader)
astralydia (Tier Leader)

Metagame Discussion - Jho
The thread where discussion of the current National Dex metagame takes place.

Sample Teams - Solaros & Lunaris
A thread where sample teams are collected together in order to help new users learn the meta more easily.

Viability Rankings - pannuracotta
A place where the community, led by a council, attempts to rank every viable Pokemon in the National Dex Metagame.

Set Compendium - adem
A resource that attempts to collect all viable sets of Pokemon in the national Dex metagame.

Role Compendium - MudkipBeans
A thread where Pokemon are sorted into the roles they fill in the metagame.

Hall of Fame - Kaede
A place to gather any player in National Dex history and recognize them for their efforts in one of our circuit individual tournaments or team tournaments.

Speed Tiers - R8 (formerly Guard)
A resource that lists the Speed of all common sets used in the National Dex metagame.

Good Cores - Solaros & Lunaris
A thread that contains a plethora of Pokemon cores that have proven effective in the metagame.

Team Bazaar - Sputnik
A place for sharing teams that is more casual and less restrictive than the Sample Teams thread.

Suspect Test Etiquette
by Finchinator from this thread with minor edits to remove stuff not relevant to National Dex

- First, if you make a checks or counters argument, the very first thing you need to do is make sure you have the correct terminology. A check, is something that cannot exactly switch in safely, but can often win a "1v1", or revenge kill the Pokemon in question. A counter is something that can 100% switch in and hard wall, or force an unfavourable situation for said Pokemon.

- Second, just because something lacks counters / checks does NOT mean it is instantly broken. Kyurem-Black, BW Hydreigon, etc. were / are all impossible to switch into, but that does not instantly make them broken. However, if something DOES have checks and counters, this doesn't make it NOT broken either. Genesect had counters, Aegislash had counters (specific to its set), and so on. Also, take note that if you parade around a collection of terrible Pokemon that circumstantially counter a suspect, a moderator will flat out delete your post and possibly even give you an infraction.

- Third, just because you beat Mega Mawile while you have an Elo rating of 1000 does not mean it's not broken. If you want to use battle statistics in your argument, look at the top tier battles, the VR posters, the tournaments scene; use really good examples. It's much harder to refuse your points if you are a highly respected battler, usually because it means people trust and respect your opinion, regardless as to which way you vote. The lower you are on the ladder, the less Mega Mawile will be used successfully and intelligently, so please bear that in mind.

- Fourth, if you use the argument "LOL MEGA MAWILE SUCKS I JUST OHKO IT WITH EQ GGGGGGGGGGG," a mod will infract you. No question. Mostly all of us are intelligent and have the ability to read. We all know how to look at a type chart, and you stating the obvious just makes you look like an utter imbecile that's out of their depth, and thus shouldn't be posting here.

- Fifth, fact check. There is nothing sadder than posting a sweeping statement that's incorrect. For instance, several people brought up Earthquake from several Pokemon as methods of dealing with Mega Mawile. Many of these people failed to realize Earthquake missed a KO and thus looked like morons. According to an IRC conversation, someone whose opinion I trust remarked that Mega Mawile actually beats Gliscor provided it uses Swords Dance on the switch in, tanks the Earthquake, and smokes Gliscor with a +2 Play Rough. I'm not sure if residual damage is required to do all of that, but the point is, don't take short cuts; we all have damage calculators, and we WILL call you out on it if you fucked up.

- Sixth, don't assume a suspect (say Mega Mawile) will stay in on your Sun- and Blaze-boosted Choice Specs Overheat. An earlier argument I saw was someone posting a load of calculations and saying "LOL MAWILE GETS OHKOed BY CHANDELURE". That's A+ logic mate, but Mega Mawile isn't setting up on a Mega Charizard Y. Instead, it's coming in on a Choice-locked Dragon-type move (an attack that Mega Mawile is immune to), a -1 Pokemon that lacks an effective means to do severe damage, etc. Posting a list of Pokemon that can OHKO Mega Mawile means nothing if you need to sacrifice a Pokemon to get your check in safely. It's not setting up, and it's not staying in.

- Seventh, be careful of the "prediction argument". IT GOES BOTH WAYS. Really clever posters will use the risk-reward prediction argument, which is a good one. If you want a breakdown about it, I'm sure many experienced players will be able to tell you, but the point is: you don't have godlike prediction skills, so I don't want to see posts like "I will go to Heatran on a Play Rough, then go to Gengar on a Focus Punch, then use Substitute on the Sucker Punch and then use Will-O-Wisp on a second Sucker Punch." You are not clairvoyant, nor is your opponent, so don't pretend otherwise.

- Eighth, make sure your post actually brings some sort of discussion to it. The posts I see that are just "yea so Mega Mawile has high attack power so I think it's broken" not only have terrible arguments but add NOTHING to the discussion. I'm not asking you to make a novel, but please make sure your post has a depth of reasoning and quality behind it. If you cannot be bothered putting thought into it, then quite frankly, I cannot be bothered reading it. In general, the better your arguments are (detail, reasoning etc), the better of the overall quality of your post, and the better chance you have of influencing people to see things your way. Therefore, if you feel strongly about a particular suspect, it is in your interest to make your post as well reasoned as possible because if you half-ass it, then you are convincing nobody.

- FINALLY, don't discuss past or future tiering. I couldn't care less if you feel salty about the Aegislash ban, and I don't care that you feel that Thundurus should be suspected first. Likewise, for the love of god, DON'T, DON'T say "but if we ban Mega Mawile, suddenly Haxorus becomes broken", like in one post I read. We do not keep broken things within National Dex to check others, so please don't try this argument. Likewise, please don't complain or rage that your fanboy favorite just got suspect tested and might be banned, use calm logic and reasoning and you will do a heck of a lot of a better job convincing others to see your side instead of posting shit like "FUCK SMOGON IT HATES ON MEGAS AND WANTS TO BAN THEM ALL I HATE THIS SITE".

Have a nice day.

Users that take it upon themselves to do exactly what I just told them not to do will be handed down an infraction. No exceptions.

Suspect Tests and Quick bans:

A suspect test will occur when an element in the metagame is evidently above the rest of the metagame but the community and/or council is split on whether or not it has enough counterplay to be considered unhealthy or not. When something arises as potentially suspect test-worthy, the council will vote on how to proceed, and if a majority votes to suspect test, a thread will go up detailing it to the community. Usually, these problematic elements will be bought up for discussion in an On The Radar thread beforehand so the council can gauge the community's thoughts.

If an element is so clearly unhealthy, a quick ban may occur. This is when the council votes on whether or not something should be instantly removed from the tier without a suspect test. This is reserved only for the most unhealthy of factors that are restricting the metagame and must be handled quickly.
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Jordy will be joining me as Co-Leader of National Dex. Jordy has offered excellent contributions to the metagame and has been a huge voice in policy discussions that have really helped to drive the tier forward ever since they joined the council back in January. Not only this, Jordy is also probably one of the most experienced National Dex players as he puts in a tremendous amount of time learning, developing, and discussing the metagame in all of our various mediums from the PS! room, to the Discord server, and here in our subforum. It is for these reasons that I believe Jordy will make for an excellent Co-Leader and I am excited to see how National Dex develops from this point.

Make sure to leave a message on his wall with a "Congrats Jordy" !
Calyrex-Shadow and Calyrex-Ice will be banned from National Dex.
It is our belief that these 2 Pokemon are far too much for the National Dex metagame due to their incredibly high stats, strong no-drawback Signature Moves, and boosting abilities on top of great movepools in general.

Calyrex-Shadow has barely any counterplay at all; offensive or defensive and is clearly too much for the metagame to handle.

Calyrex-Ice we believe to also be too much despite its less than stellar typing and poor Speed. Its incredibly strong 130 BP STAB with no drawbacks firing off of 165 Attack makes it almost impossible to switch in to, even for the sturdiest of resistances. On top of this its physical bulk allows it to take a variety of super effective hits, making it difficult to revenge kill despite its speed.

These may be revisited in the future of course but for now tagging Kris to implement this when possible
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I'm pretty sure everyone saw this coming a mile away but Avery will be joining me as Co-Tier Leader for National Dex. They've been an excellent presence in the community ever since they joined us and have been a massive help in tiering as part of the Metagame Council, running this forum as part of the moderation team, and helping grow and improve the community through Discord, PS!, and here on Smogon.

Make sure to congratulate them!
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